[OVNI-SCIENCES] (sans objet)

[jose.chelkoff]

Bienvenue de nouveau sur la liste, James.
 Tu nous as manqué, Bonnes vacances à toi et à Gildas et à tous ceux qui
partent. Moi je suis à la montagne à la fraîcheur loin de la cohue et des
touristes de la côte, et je peux communiquer en accès libre.
 En ouvrant la porte donnant sur la montagne hier matin de très bonne heure
j'ai vu  un faon qui batifolait dans l'herbe, une biche et un peu plus tard
un magnifique cerf avec des bois immenses. C'est un spectacle plus sympa que
les motos pétaradantes qui passent devant chez moi à Antibes ! 
Mais il n'y a pas que des cerfs, des chamois et des renards, il y a aussi et
souvent des observations d'ovnis (on est tout prêt du Col de Vence) et je
vais bientôt rencontrer autour d'un barbecue des gens d'ici qui en ont
observé.
Amitiés,
José

-----Message d'origine-----
De : debat-bounces at ovni-sciences.net
[mailto:debat-bounces at ovni-sciences.net] De la part de James
Envoyé : samedi 30 juillet 2005 17:29
À : GBourdais; debat at ovni-sciences.net
Objet : Re: [OVNI-SCIENCES] (sans objet)

Re-bonjour Gildas et tous,

Merci pour le texte. Je pars aussi demain pour qqs jours (c'est c... ! 
juste au moment ou je pouvais surfer à nouveau !).

A bientôt,

James

At 15:58 30/07/2005, GBourdais wrote:
>James,
>___________________________
>
>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais at wanadoo.fr>
>To: <ufoupdates at virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 12:23:08 +0200
>Subject: More Questions On 'Body Snatchers'
>
>
>To Nick Redfern, EBK and All,
>
>I have now read your book "Body Snatchers in the Desert", and I
>am sorry to say that I have more criticisms to make, following
>my first comments based on your interview by Stuart Miller (my
>messages of June 22 and 23). I have read the excellent critiques
>of Kevin Randle (sent to me privately, which sould be posted
>soon on the List) and others, notably the precise questions of
>Robert Durant (coming soon as well) but I feel that I can add
>some more points.
>
>First, about the alleged transfer of prisoners from Unit 731 in
>Manchuria to the United States, supposedly in order to continue
>the horrible human experiments made there by the Japanese, the
>question is: did it really happen? This is all important in your
>theory since you claim it was the tremendous secret to be hidden
>at all costs, even by spreading false stories of UFO crashes.
>You say, citing your inside source Levine (p 85): "When the
>Japanese surrendered in the wake of the atomic destruction of
>Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945, a number of these and "a
>quantity of still-living people were found in the remains of
>Unit 731 facilities (and also German laboratories) by Allied
>soldiers. These remains were subsequently transferred to the Los
>Alamos Laboratories, New Mexico, where this dark and disturbing
>research was continued".
>
>
>There is a big problem here: this story is radically
>contradicted by all historical studies and sources. In your
>references, you mention the book of Peter Williams and David
>Wallace "Unit 731: Japan's Secret Biological Warfare in World
>war II" (1989). I have read it (in its French translation). It
>is, indeed, a very complete history of these horrible
>experiments, and it says clearly what happened at the end of the
>war. When the Soviet army began to invade Manchuria, on August
>9, 1945, the next day, the Japanese destroyed all buildings of
>Units 731 and 100, and killed all the prisoners (the "Marutas").
>They had orders to destroy every trace of the experiments, and
>never talk about them.
>
>This version is confirmed, for instance, in another book that I
>just found: "The Pacific War" by the Japanese historian Saburo
>Ienaga (1968; American edition by Pantheon Books, New York,
>1978. this book has been praised by major American newspapers).
>Here is what it says (pp. 188,189):
>
>"According to former unit members, when the Soviet Union entered
>the war on August 8, 1945, the Japanese tried to destroy every
>trace of the 731 Unit's activities. The Maruta prisoners were
>given food dosed with potassium cyanide: those who did not eat
>the food were machine-gunned. The bodies were thrown into a pit
>in a huge courtyard at the unit, doused with gasoline, and set
>on fire. Because of the great number of corpses, they did not
>burn thoroughly. The charred bodies were then put into a
>pulverizer. Engineers dynamited the buildings, and all equipment
>tools, and incriminating material were burned. Personnel of 731
>Unit were given highest priority evacuation back to Japan,
>before the rest of the Kwantung Army or other units". (Note: the
>Soviet Union declared war on August 8, and began invading
>Manchuria the next day).
>
>
>
>According to other sources, at the time of the destruction of
>Unit 731, there were only 150 prisoners left, also called
>"logs", who were all killed. This destruction of all proofs is
>of course the reason why it took a long time, after the end of
>the war, to uncover the whole story of Unit 731. The first
>American investigator, Lt. Col. Sanders, a young bacteriologist
>from Camp Detrick in Maryland who arrived in Japan one week
>after Japan surrendered, interrogated many leaders during three
>months, but he was misled by his Japanese interpreter, Lt. Col.
>Naito, who was a former student of General Ishi, the head of the
>biological warfare program. Nevertheless, Sanders discovered
>around September that Unit 731 was involved in human
>experiments, and began to inform General MacArthur. Ishi then
>proposed to give scientific information on these experiments in
>exchange for complete immunity, for him and his colleagues,
>which was eventually granted to them. On that matter, you are
>apparently mistaken again when you write, quoting your insiders,
>that a "massive" amount of documentation was found in 1945.
>Actually, according to Williams and Wallace, American
>authorities were still discussing in the summer of 1947 the
>opportunity of making a deal with Ishi, which had been
>recommended by General MacArthur. The deal was concluded the
>following year, in spite of a negative advice of the State
>Department. So, this calls into serious question your claims
>about "massive" documentation found as soon as 1945.
>
>
>
>
>Final note: it looks like your theory integrates as many aspects
>as possible of the Roswell "file", mixing together everything,
>from serious testimonies to the most fragile tales. For instance
>the idea of a Horten aircraft: it is good to "explain" the
>testimonies (some of which are quite credible) on an arrow -
>shaped, or horseshoe - shaped alien craft. Gone, the UFO. The
>radioactive material put on board "explains" the very dubious
>story of the cameraman. The handicapped Japanese with progeria
>come in appropriately to "explain" the confusion in Roswell, and
>the autopsy footage by the same token, etc.
>
>
>In all, this is, to me, a totally unbelievable story, for which
>I have not found any credible evidence in your book.
>
>
>Gildas Bourdais
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "James" <james0001 at free.fr>
>To: <debat at ovni-sciences.net>
>Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 2:34 PM
>Subject: [OVNI-SCIENCES] (sans objet)
>
>
>Salut Christophe, Gildas, Josée, et tous,
>
>J'espère que je n'arrive pas comme un cheveu sur la soupe.
>Ma nouvelle connexion est opérationnelle depuis 1 h. Je peux donc reprendre
>les débats sur ovni-sciences, si on m'accepte toujours.
>
>En établissant ma connexion, j'avais près de 600 mails (depuis la fin mai
>!). J'en ai giclé 500, car impossible de les lire tous.
>
>A très bientôt donc et amitiés,
>
>James
>
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